The Case For Mindful Eating

Wendy: [00:00:00] Welcome to. The live recording of the podcast. We don't do this too often. Yeah. So we're over the moon. Usually we're like bundled up in our homes. I'm usually in a closet cuz I live in New York City, . So this is definitely a change of scene. Um, so I'm Wendy, this is Dust. We're registered.

Dieticians. Are there any dieticians here? Oh my God. Oh my God. So many, mostly dieticians in the house. So yeah, we're also diabetes educators. We started food Heaven over 10 years ago, which is crazy. It's been such a long ride and it came outta work that we were doing at Farmer's Markets. In New York City, actually, we used to work at a farmer's market in the Bronx and we were just really inspired by the work that we were doing with the community there.

And we were like, oh, well how can we expand this information outside of just the farmer's market? So then we started recording videos and Jessica's apartment in Brooklyn. Um, and then from there it kind of just, Grew. [00:01:00] And you know, now we have this podcast, which we've been doing for over seven years. Um, and we explore topics like intuitive eating, body respect, nutrition, culture, the intersection of all of that.

And then we kind of branch off and talk about relationships, money. Random things. Um, yeah, , real estate, real estate, . We're like, whatever we're interested in, we'll use the podcast as an opportunity to like talk to people who are really interesting about these things.

Jess: Yeah. Get advice. Yeah. So we are so excited to be here at this event with Ste.

Thank you for having us. This has been amazing. The food, the space is

Wendy: alone. I'm like, I'm ready to move in here. It's

Jess: incredible. , I'm like my bedroom.

Wendy: Are you hiring? Is right over there. Yeah. I wanna work here. Wink, wink, .

Jess: Yeah, we're ready to work here. Um, so yeah, as Wendy said, we've been doing our podcast for seven years.

Feels like we're og. Dinosaurs. Ancient. Yeah. In the [00:02:00] podcast space. Um, but it's been really fun and exciting, and especially doing stuff like this live events. Today we are going to be talking about mindful eating, which I'm sure everyone's like, ugh, mindful eating. Like everybody knows you should be eating mindfully, but nobody is

Uh,

Wendy: myself included. And yes,

Jess: this is really for us, honestly, like all the, the research that we did is like a reminder for ourselves. and we feel like food has just become a real obsession and people, you know, can get stressed around eating. Um, and also during mealtimes too, especially with the pandemic, everybody was super stressed working from home.

And it can be very easy to just be eating in front of your computer, um, doing work, multitasking. And so we're gonna talk about some strategies for mindful eating that have really worked for. Um, anything else that we're gonna talk

Wendy: about? Yeah, so we're gonna cover what mindful eating is. Also like practical ways to incorporate it in ways that align [00:03:00] with your food values.

We're gonna go over some of the research and what it has to say about mindful eating, and then we're gonna do some activities where we'll put this all into practice and we're gonna be eating, which is my favorite thing to do. , um, air somer. Anyone will be like, we'll be chewing and everything. It'll be fun.

Um, yeah. , that's kind of the outline of what we'll be covering

Jess: today. Yes. So raise your hand if you have experienced burnout over the last three years. Wow. Okay. I see like one person with their hands down. What is your secret? . . You need to be up here. Okay. Um, so we have experienced burnout and are still healing.

Yeah. I feel like we're still, yeah. Like we're not, yeah, we're still in it. It's like we're not over it yet. We're drowning. No help . We're doing better. We're doing better guys. Right, right, right. . Um, but for me, what really solidified it, and we [00:04:00] talked about this on the podcasts cuz the podcast cuz we did a burnout series.

Um, was, I was on a trip with one of my best friends and I forgot everything. Like I forgot my computer, I forgot my charger, I forgot my socks. And she was like, oh my God, you really are burnt out. You have no mental capacity to do anything but like basic needs. And so that really hit home for me and I'm like, okay, I really have to deal with this burnout.

And one thing that I realized for me at least, was that multitasking was a huge factor in that Can anybody. You're always, yeah, we're always like doing a million things at once. Um, um, I was always feeling scattered. Uh, Wendy, what about you? What's your relationship with multitasking?

Wendy: Yeah. I feel like it's something that I know I shouldn't be doing, but I always am doing.

And um, yeah, it just feels, when I'm not multitasking, I feel guilty cuz I'm like, I should be doing the most but I'm already doing the most right. And so it's a black hole that I'm

Jess: trying to get. Yeah. Yes. [00:05:00] And the research shows that we can't really multitask well. Our brain cannot juggle between multiple things at one time.

It really just alternates between those two things quickly, and for me it always manifests, you know, when you're trying to pay your trash bill. and they're like, oh, you have to press two to get to the next level, or whatever. And then you're also writing an email. You're also texting and you keep forgetting the number they say to press, so you have to call back like 17 times,

Um, and so that's like just the epitome of multitasking where it tends to take much longer because you're not actually focusing on just listening to. You know what's happening or what you should be doing in the moment. Um, so raise your hand if, and also this is a safe space, so if you don't have to raise your hand, but just curious if you guys multitask during meals at all.

No judgment. What are some of the things that you're doing?

Wendy: Um, looking at pictures of my cat , um, yes, but [00:06:00] sometimes I'll, I'll like watch Netflix. Um, I'm watching Bling Empire New York right now. Not as good. I, I, I find it entertaining.

Jess: Oh, cuz it's new. Yeah, cuz you're in York because it's New York.

Wendy: The culture, you know,

Um, but yeah, I mean it's like, it's kind of gross cuz my laptop always has like food stains all over it. Cause I'm like, type A . I have to like disinfect it every day. But yeah, I'm always like, you know, af Yeah, that's why we're doing

Jess: this, that's why we're doing this. Yes. Um, yes, same. I usually don't eat lunch or I don't work while I'm eating, unless I'm eating a snack.

However, I'm still keeping up with the Kardashians, right? I'm right watching T mz, uh, ,

Wendy: which by the way, she had me do this t TMZ tour in LA and, uh, still not sure how I feel about

Jess: it. , , it was really fun. Has anyone done a tmz? Nobody.

Wendy: Oh my God. You [00:07:00] go on this like safari looking like truck and they like drive you through and like it's pretty embarrassing.

I feel like people were making fun of us. They were absolutely

Jess: making fun of us. It was like people were eating at like these nice restaurants in Beverly Hills and we're just like on the bus too. I know. , they were like, and they're like, you are whatever. Anyway. Yeah. Anyways, focus. . So multitasking can be really tricky and um, we are going to make the case for not doing that during mealtimes or at least doing it less.

Right, cuz realistic. So there are three interesting studies that I found that I kind of wanna highlight, um, in terms of why it may not be the best thing to be multitasking during eating or being distracted. So, Study that I found, and actually there was a lot, these are just three, was this idea of taste perception, and they found that multitasking during the meal, um, a k a distracted eating can lower a [00:08:00] person's perception of taste.

Now, what is taste perception? You may wonder it's the brain's, um, way of clocking the five senses. Does anybody know what the five senses are? You wanna yell them out? Dieticians, , , sweet sour. Salty, bitter. And what's the last one? Mommy? Yay. Mommy. . I knew that. I look at that . Okay, so we, the body relies on tastes perception in order to feel full and when we're doing other things.

while we're eating, the brain is not able to register all the taste that it is experiencing and signal that it's full. So the study found that people tend to overeat when this is happening, right? And it's fine if we overeat sometimes. And I think for a lot of people they need to eat more anyways and maybe they're just, you know, eating what their body actually needs.

They found in particular in this study, that people overate sweet and [00:09:00] salty substances. And I think if you're somebody who is struggling with GI issues, you know, after eating or feeling overly full, feeling uncomfortable, or maybe it's impacting your health issues, this may be something that you wanna pay attention, pay attention to.

The other um, study was an Italian study and they looked at, um, college students and they measured the activity in their. And, um, they measured it before watching a movie. And then during watching a movie and before watching the movie, they gave, um, the participants a snack. And when they ate the snack, they had normal activity in their gut, um, in their stomach.

Things were moving through their GI tracted. However, when they were watching the movie and eating the snack, their gut motility decreased significantly. And so what it was showing. That when we are multitasking, even doing something as simple as watching a movie, which I'm sure we all do, or watching tv, Netflix, and chilling when we are eating it can, um, have an impact on our gut motility and things kind of staying in our stomach.

And there was also a decreased, um, [00:10:00] production of digestive enzymes, which I thought was really interesting. . And then the last study that we'll look at was chewing and rushed eating. Right? So has anybody ever, uh, eaten really quickly or feel like you might be swallowing your food hole? . ? Yeah. I have a lot of patients where they come in and they have these GI issues and really, oh, this is not swiping.

Okay, , they have these GI issues and. A lot of times it's just they're eating so quickly and they're, they're, they're not chewing their food and studies show again that chewing might help to improve some digestive, um, symptoms and issues. And so I think it's not that we all have to be, you know, feeling like a monk during meal times, but just some simple things can make a huge difference.

And so Wendy's gonna talk a little bit more about what the science says about some of the health benefits of mindful. .

Wendy: Yeah. What happens is when you're stressed eating or when you're completely distracted, your brain is not registering that [00:11:00] you're actually supposed to be digesting. And I think that's where the connection comes, where it's been linked with a range of different digestive issues from like abdominal pain.

There's some really interesting nu uh, research about nutrient absorption too, where you actually have decreased nutrient absorption, um, under the conditions of stress eating, um, bloating. Heartburn, a range of different things. And so we looked at some of the review studies and they found that mindful eating was associated with an increased awareness of hunger and fullness.

There was also less cortisol secretion and healthy adult subjects, which was really interesting. Um, reduced episodes of binge and emotional eating, which is something we see happen all the time, especially in private practice. The emotional eating part, um, improve blood glucose levels and also in increased satisfaction.

with food. So there's some interesting research there. Um, but before we go like too deep into it, we should probably talk about what mindful eating is and where it comes from. Um, so it came out of the Buddhist concept of [00:12:00] mindfulness and it really grew out of research that was done in the eighties where they looked at mindful eating in relation to a range of different conditions like depression, anxiety, also heart disease, chronic pain.

Um, and we really like the definition from the center of mindful eating. Breaks it down into three principles, and so I'll share those with you all. The first one is that mindful eating is allowing yourself to become aware of the positive and nurturing opportunities that are available through food prep and consumption.

They all sound very zen , um, choosing to eat. Food that is both pleasurable and nourishing to your body by using all of your senses to explore savor and taste. And then the last one is acknowledging responses to food without judgment. This is my favorite one because I think especially now in the culture of social media, food has become very moralized.

It's like, this is good, this is bad. You're a bad person because you had some bread and it's. [00:13:00] Chill out. You didn't rob a church, you didn't kill a dog. Right. , right. Random examples, you know, you had a pina colada. It's fine. . Um, it's not that serious , but everything has become so more or less. So I really like that non-judgment piece because it allows us to see food as more objective.

Um, where it's like, you know, we're nourishing ourselves. It doesn't have to be, you know, your idea of perfect every single time. You just kind of observe objectively how your body is feeling when you're eating different foods and you remove like, you know, all of these misconceptions that we've been told, especially through media about how we're supposed to be feeling when we consume certain foods.

Um, so tell me about your. Incorporating some of these things into your life.

Jess: Yeah, so as I mentioned, I think it's not all or nothing. I don't think you have to, every single meal, not have any distractions. That's not realistic, but I [00:14:00] think we can all incorporate little things here and there, even if it's one meal a week.

yeah. Um, that work for us. And so for me, what I have found is when I'm feeling very stressed, um, is to just practice breathing, right? Something so simple as three deep breaths to help me not only connect with the present moment, connect with my body, and connect with the plate. Like what is actually here?

What am I eating? Where did this come from? So that's number one. And that takes two seconds and it really helps. Maybe three seconds. And the second thing is to just notice what you're eating and savor every bite. And I think this one can be tricky depending, because sometimes, you know, may not be a Michelin star meal that you're eating.

Maybe it's just like pbj, PB and j, but I still think that. Um, you can pay attention to the sound of the food, the textures, the tastes, all the different flavors. Uh, and just that one [00:15:00] little, you know, act can help you be more mindful within that meal. one of this one thing that me and my husband, um, do.

That's kind of corny, but it helps us to, and I, I just am realizing that it helps with mindfulness with food. But when we go out to eat, we'll kind of act like food critics and. Talk about the meal in terms of what it looks like, what it tastes like, what we like about it, what we would change about it. And it might be like we had, we went to a Mexican restaurant the other day and we had chips and salsa and we were both saying like, oh, this is the perfect chip.

It's just like the perfect amount of thinness, crispiness, warmth. This little layer of oil on it, it's not too much. And it really helps you just get excited about the food, get in the present moment, and it's something that's nice that you can do with someone else. Because often we think of mindful eating as just like you're one with the food and that's not

It's not really realistic when you're out. Like when you said having cocktails with your boo. [00:16:00] and the the last thing that I like to do is very simple again, and it's just relaxing my stomach. How many of us sit down to eat and you notice that your stomach is like clenched? Up. Yeah. And it's tough because it's kind of like an automatic response, especially folks with anxiety, um, who tend to hold that anxiety in your stomach.

And so I noticed that when that's happening and I'm eating in, kind of rushing through a meal, I tend to have more GI upset, more heartburn, more i b IBS type symptoms. And so just the act of the breathing and the just making a conscious effort to try and relax my stomach as much as possible, it. Works wonders.

Yeah. What about you?

Wendy: I think slowing down is the most important thing. Cuz as Jess knows, I like swallow food whole. Um, I think I have unresolved trauma from childhood where like, I feel like someone's gonna steal my food. Um, cuz I just like, [00:17:00] like two seconds and Jess is like, where, where'd the food go? And I'm like, I don't know.

I need to slow down. So, you know, I think that that's been very useful for me. Um, just like being like, okay, you have 10 minutes to, you know, to eat this meal. Or maybe even 30 if you know you, you have the time and so you can really like paste yourself and even like talk through it, you know? Um, and also not skipping meals.

So I think we can probably all relate, you know, being very busy professionals, like next thing you. It's lunchtime, you didn't have breakfast, you might not even be having lunch. And so I think it's helpful to have some designated time windows. It doesn't have to be like 12 o'clock, you're gonna have lunch.

But just that knowing that you have these time windows where just like you make time for your meetings, you're making time to, you know, enjoy a meal. And it, I think that there should be flexibility there. Like I get, you know, that we should eat more mindfully in things, but sometimes that's just not possible.

Yeah. So I think it's much better. Eat a meal [00:18:00] mindlessly than not eat at all. So even if you know you're commuting or you know, you have to like work through emails, just making sure that you are dedicating some time to nourish yourself so that you know your brain is, is being fueled throughout the day and you're getting all of the nutrition that you need.

Jess: Yeah, I think my childhood food tra, I mean there's probably a few things so much Yeah. , but um, I tend to save a lot of food and

Wendy: like hoard foods. You do? Oh my god. . Okay, let me side note. So Jess came to visit my family in the Dominican Republic and we were at a resort, which A resort. Hello? Unlimited food, right?

We have our little fridge in our room. Packed with food. Jess is like stacking the food. It's all gonna go to waste cuz I know Jess and this happens all the time. She like, she stacks it and she stacks it and then it just goes to the garbage . And my parents [00:19:00] were like, that was the first time they met you?

Yeah. And they were like, is she okay? Like they were like, are there issues at home? Like

Jess: why does she, I know it's because when you grow up with a lot of siblings, does anybody here have a lot of siblings? Do you know where I'm going with this? It's like you, I had to hide food because you go grocery shopping and you have like your Cheerios or whatever, cereal, I don't know.

And you're excited about it. And then you wake up and it's all gone. So I would have to like hoard food and save it in the back of the fridge or like wrap it in whatever foil so no one could see it or put like all these labels on it. . And I have to let that go. You gotta let it go . Yeah. Cause I have enough, but.

Mindful eating. Okay, . So what is the difference between mindful and intuitive eating? I know a lot of people wonder that question and um, my patients too, they're like, oh, is this intuitive eating? And the truth is that there are a lot of similarities and there are some [00:20:00] differences. Um, has anyone here ever heard of intuitive eating?

Okay. Of course, right? Mm-hmm. , a lot of dieticians in the room and other healthcare providers. Um, Wendy's gonna talk a little bit more about the differences in what intuitive eating is, but I'll talk about some of the similarities. . So one thing that we recommend doing as part of mindful eating that's also part of intuitive eating is just checking in with yourself throughout the meal process and asking yourself basic questions like, is this actually satisfying?

There are a lot of times when I notice I'm eating something and you're just kind of on autopilot and you're like, mm, this actually is not good. I'm not enjoying this. Often when it's a treat sometimes where it's like this cookie's actually stale. Mm-hmm. and um, and you really. Don't have to continue eating it.

So just taking that time to check in and noticing, is there a point in which you stop enjoying it? Because that's one thing too, like in the beginning, sometimes things taste really good, it's really exciting, but then [00:21:00] halfway through you're just eating it to eat it. So that's number one. Wendy already mentioned this one, but I think it's good to reiterate is making sure to eat when you are hungry and not skip meals.

If there was one thing that I would say is most important to remember from this, it's eating consistently, um, not skipping meals because of course once you're to the point of starving, you're going to not eat mindfully. It's like almost impossible. So, , both mindful and intuitive eating. Have that one in.

And then the third one, oops, that's not working. But , the third one, um, is, so one thing that I also like to do is I think about my stomach is a hundred percent. So a hundred percent full means that I'm completely stuffed and I feel sick, and I don't wanna be a hundred percent full. So for me, a comfortable place of fullness is maybe 80%, right?

Where it's [00:22:00] like, okay, I had a meal. I feel good. I'm probably not gonna get hungry. So when I'm eating, I try to think, what percentage am I at right now? Right? So maybe I'm out to eat and the portions are bigger. Maybe I'm three quarters through the plate and I'm at 75%, but I want dessert. So maybe that's a cue.

Okay. I probably need to. You know, consider stop eating this food right now. Or maybe I'm eating and I'm only at, I was starving and I'm at 40% and um, I'm almost done and maybe I need to get another plate. So for me, the percentage really helps, um, just think about volume of my stomach and know when it's time to.

uh, to stop or to continue? Yeah.

Wendy: Yeah. So with intuitive eating, it's a lot more multifaceted. Um, if you've gone on a diet before, if you have patients who have gone on diets, I'm sure you've seen how different food rules manifest, whether it's like, you know, now the, the intermittent fasting is a big one where you're like, only eating between certain times.

Or my favorite cutting out [00:23:00] carbohydrates, which what does that even mean? But meanwhile, You're binging on fruits, um, , or like you're on a raw food diet. Like there's just so many different food roles now, um, especially with like this wellness culture. Um, and they're usually tied with like modifying your body and some kind of weight, usually weight loss.

And so with intuitive eating, instead of focusing on how to change your body, the focus was really how to change. Feel in the body that you're currently in. And so you take into account different things like food access, culture, medical history, like all of the different things that can impact our food intake and our relationship to food.

And then we use that to inform our approach with intuitive eating. Um, However, some of the principles, like honoring your fullness, um, recognizing your, um, your hunger levels, like all of those things overlap with mindful eating. And so we really see the benefit of integrating both, um, into our practice. So [00:24:00] we are now gonna do an as S M R activity with you all.

Um, you have some

Jess: chips. , but it's not really asmr. I

Wendy: know, I know. I just said that.

Jess: I know . Wendy doesn't watch asmr. I'm like, girl, this is not asmr. . I watch ASMR sounds, but yeah, but we'd have to be doing the sounds on the mic. Oh, . Okay. So don't eat the chips yet. . You can open the chips. Don't eat the chip unless you're starving and you need to this thing.

Okay. I don't know how to use the. Folks at home grab something to eat. We're gonna do a mindful eating activity.

Wendy: I wonder we have up until,

Jess: we have until 1140, so, right.

Wendy: Total. Yeah. Okay. So we sh we should talk in like 15 minutes. Yeah.

Jess: All righty. Now, many of you may have [00:25:00] heard, you know, some of the things that we're gonna talk about and you already know them, but like I said, we're not always doing them.

Take it all in. All right, so before eating your delicious chips from Siete, we want you to think about your, um, your stomach right now and your hunger level. So on a scale from one to 10, one being starving and 10 being stopped, just take a mental note of where you're at right now. What number would you pick, or if it's easier for you, like it is for me?

What percentage are you.

In terms of your hunger right now, think about it in the terms of is it pleasant? Is it unpleasant, or do you feel neutral about it? How and where do you feel your hunger? If you are hungry, for example, you might feel it in your stomach. I know for me when I'm [00:26:00] just starting to get hungry, it's more of a distraction type of thing.

An irritability. And what food are you craving or desiring? Now let's talk about the eating environment. So where are you eating right now? Right? We are in a room, in a conference with a lot of people. Does that experience feel pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral for you? I know for some people, It can be triggering to eat around other people, um, or maybe depending upon the setting, maybe at work.

People don't like eating around others. Others find it enjoyable. Others could care less what the setting is. If you're hungry, you're just gonna eat and not really, um, care about the environment, any distractions happening. Do you have your phone out? Are you taking notes? Okay, now we're going to begin the actual eating process.

So everybody take a bite. [00:27:00] Have your chip. . . Thank you.

Wendy: here. That crunch?

Jess: Yes. So as you're taking your bite, I want you to think about, did it live up to your expect. Of course it

Wendy: did. chips.

Jess: Pay attention to your experience of the first bite. What is it like? What are the flavors? Is it sweet, savory, salty, sour, bitter, the texture, hard, crunchy, smooth, creamy, the aroma?

Is it sweet, acidic, mild. What's the color? You can feel free to look at it too. You don't feel too silly in this big room. The shape, the eye appeal, cuz [00:28:00] that's a thing. The temperature, hot, cold, icy room temperature. The volume or filling capacity, is it something that's airy and light or is it more. And I'm gonna pause for just like 15, 30 seconds to kind of take it all in.

Feel free to have more chips if you want.

Wendy: All right, so here we have the Hunger Scale on the screen. Dieticians, I'm sure you're familiar with this, and so it's a tool that I really like using with people and even for myself because you're able to identify what pleasant. Hunger and fullness looks like for you, you wanna avoid being in the red zone.

You know, like when you're in one, you're like, you're probably ready to choose someone's face off. And then when you're at [00:29:00] 10, you're feeling very uncomfortable. So you wanna find a sweet spot, which for me, it's usually around seven or eight. Um, you know, but it's different for everyone. Uh, Jess, what is it like for you?

Maybe like five, six, because I feel like you always leave room for

Jess: dessert. I do always leave room for dessert. Yeah. Yeah. So I'd say max. Eight.

Wendy: Max is eight. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you wanna kind of just have this in the back of your head, you know, and kind of like thinking about, Hmm, how am I feeling right now?

And also noting that there's a difference between mealtime hunger and snack time. Hunger, because you know, if you're hungry for a meal, you can have 10 bags of these chips. And you're still gonna be hungry. And so, you know, maybe you have a bag to hold you until the next meal. Um, but you know that really you should be having a meal.

No amount of snacks is going to satisfy a mealtime hunger. And that's something that I see happen all the time where people are like just snacking throughout the day. They're grazing and they're like, I'm always hungry. I have so much anxiety around food. And I'm like, yeah, because you're, you know, you're [00:30:00] really just having maybe like one food group and you're having a lot of it throughout the day and you're.

Getting the full nourishment that comes through having a complete meal. Um, and so, yeah, you know, I think this is something that can, that can be useful for us, but also to the people that we work with. Um, having people like really think through as they're eating during the eating process. Like right now, take a pause and be like, Hmm, what number am I at right now?

Most of us had this like really incredible breakfast that was given to us this morning, so yeah, we're. I feel like right now I'm at a nine. Where are you ? I would say I'm

Jess: at a

Wendy: seven. You're at a seven? Yeah. Okay. You could go for dessert. I could go for dessert. Okay.

Jess: Yeah,

Wendy: definitely. Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, and so I think just making that, that distinction is.

Is really important.

Jess: Yeah. And that concludes our mindful eating activity. You guys also have, if you're here live, I guess, for the podcast, we'll, we'll talk about that one. But, um, you guys all [00:31:00] have your handouts so you could practice some of these things at home. And now we just wanna talk about a couple of.

Tips that you guys can use with, um, with mindful eating at home. Things that have worked for us. Mm-hmm. . So one thing that people will always ask is, how long should my meal last? Or, we talked about the rushing through the meal idea. and I think it's really individual for, you know, how long it should, it should last.

But if people really want a place to start, I might say a goal might be 20 minutes for a meal, right? Because that gives your, um, your stomach a chance to kind of signal to your brain that you're full. Um, and people who are eating in five minutes tend to. Have more GI issues, at least from my experience working with clients when you're kind of rushing through the meal.

Um, but for people, 20 minutes can feel like a really long time. So I might suggest then maybe let's start with timing the meal for 10 [00:32:00] minutes and literally setting a timer on your phone and just taking your time a little bit more so that you can stretch that meal out. Mm-hmm. to last the 10. And then once you get to the 10 minutes and that feels easy, then try the 20 minutes and just see if that makes any difference for your satisfaction with the meal.

Like we mentioned, any GI issues or distress that you might be having. So that is one thing. Let's see. Oh, another thing that I really like is from a dietician who was on our podcast years ago. She has a TED Talk, her name is Eve Laja, and have you guys heard of her? some people. Yeah. She talks a lot about binge eating and one concept that she uh, talks about is this idea of a speed bump, and what she says is, when you get your plate, Try to create a natural speed bump by dividing into like in a gentle way, nothing dramatic, but let's say you have a [00:33:00] sandwich and chips, so maybe you cut the sandwich in half and you have half the sandwich on one side and half on the other.

She says, eat half of the sandwich first. And then that speed bump is just a natural built in pause to give you a chance to kind of reflect on all these things that we've been talking about. Like where are you at on the fullness scale? And then you can kind of decide, oh, actually I'm still hungry. I'm gonna, you know, eat half of what's left, or I'm gonna finish my plate.

Um, or sometimes you may not know. Does that happen to people where you're kind of like, eh, I could eat more, I couldn. , like it hasn't fully registered. So then some, you know, it might be nice to just take a pause. Yeah. Um, for five minutes or, or sometimes 20 minutes and just see how things settle. . So that's another one.

And then the last suggestion I have, because there's a lot of folks who they wanna do something while they're eating, right? Because we don't wanna say never do anything, ever and watch tv. Um, but we do know from the research that it is helpful to be more [00:34:00] mindful. So we might say, okay, what if we listen to a podcast, this podcast, , while you are eating?

And that way you're doing something, but you still, you know, you can pay attention with certain senses, you can look at your food, you can be more engaged, but yet you're not completely distracted watching the drama on Bling Empire or something . Right, right, right, right.

Wendy: Or maybe listening to music is like, music is good.

You know, an

Jess: nice. Yeah. But it has to be a certain type of, because like my husband the other day, he was like blasting this trap music. Okay. Like right before dinner. And I was like, I'm literally just looking at all these studies on how this is really distracting and we gotta like put on the bossa nova cuz this is not gonna work.

Right. , I'm like, I cannot Little Ziva right now. Um, but so yeah, those are some tips.

Wendy: Anything. Well, I'll go over some takeaways. Yeah. And then we'll, we'll do some questions. So say no to [00:35:00] multitasking, which is something, you know, we're gonna, we're both gonna work on. Um, mindless eating is linked with the range of, you know, food and nutrition related issues like we went over.

Also, some strategies that might help include breathing through food, relaxing your stomach, not skipping meals, slowing down. And I really like the timing of meals. I feel like. A very practical one and like, you know, just create some time windows where you're like, this is dedicated to eating. I'm not compromising on this.

Um, and you know, sometimes like if you don't really have a regimen, you might not even be hungry during certain part. Like I have so many people that I've worked with who are like, I'm just not hungry. You know, I can't relate to that cuz I would be , I would be ready to kill someone, but like, oh, I just don't get hungry.

Ever . Yeah. Like what? Um, but you know, especially like during the morning hours or even during the, the early afternoon hours and so sometimes, you know, your body just has to adjust to something else. And so you might just wanna [00:36:00] start small with maybe having some fruit or just something that's easier to digest so that your body can catch up and then you'll start developing those hunger.

You know, again, but that's something that we see all the time. But I think having those windows are important and then starting small, like Jess said, it's not like you're gonna sit down three times a day and you know, breathe through food cuz like who has the time for that? You know, but maybe dedicating once a week to maybe a family meal or, or having like a solo meal is really nice.

Yeah. Um, and I, you know, I think it's something that we can come. Back to, because like, you know, I've gone through months and months where I'm just eating mindlessly. I feel like that's kind of where I'm at now. Um, but then, you know, now that you have this information, you're like, okay, you know, it's a reminder like, okay, I haven't been doing this.

Let me kind of get back on track and try to do little things to incorporate it. So it's not like you have to do it all the time. Um, but it's trying to do your best to, to do some of these things. Um, . So yeah. Now [00:37:00] we'll do some questions. We actually had a couple questions that were already submitted, so we can start with those and, and then if you all have any questions, you know, we can answer those as well.

It could be related to anything. We're an open book . Um, how are we doing with time? Yeah, we have 20 minutes. Okay. All right, so the first question that was submitted was about, um, mindful eating as it relates to communities that are experiencing food insecurity and how to incorporate it in, in, in that scenario, which I think is a great question cuz Justin and I have a lot of experience working with communities that are food insecure and I think the most important thing.

You know, to read the room first, because if you're working with someone who doesn't have stable housing or who doesn't have a kitchen, maybe they're like renting a room, you don't wanna recommend, you know, breathing through food, it's like it's offensive, you know, it's really missing the mark. And so in that case, it's [00:38:00] just not appropriate, like, A lot of the things we discuss is not appropriate.

You really should try to get them connected to like some of the local resources, whether it's like a social worker or E B T or things like that to help bring more food security to this person. Now, if you have someone who is able to buy meals consistently, but their money is stretched very thin, I do think that a lot of the things we covered are very useful because we've seen that there's a lot of disordered eating amongst people that.

Experience food insecurity. Um, something that we see a lot is the restrict and binge cycle where maybe you've had, you know, the experience where you didn't have consistent access to food. And so when you do see food, you just have a lot of it. Um, even if you know now you're, you're stable when it comes to food, but you have that history, you know, there's a lot of trauma associated with that.

And so a lot of disordered eating behaviors can. . And so, you know, some strategies that I have found helpful there are talking about [00:39:00] food preservation and proper food storage where you can say, Hey, you know, you can freeze these foods, you can properly store them, and now you have a meal for the next day.

You don't have to worry about making, um, another meal. Another big thing culturally, but also that I see amongst communities, um, who have experienced food insecurity is this concept of cleaning your. Mm-hmm. , um, where, you know, your parents are pressuring you. They're like, you're not leaving until you clean that plate.

Yeah. You know, my, my parents used to do that to me and like, oh my God. And so, you know, it's almost like you don't want the food to go to waste, cuz you're like, I have to finish everything. Like, I, you know, I feel so bad there's people who maybe don't have food and it, it's almost like you have this pressure on yourself to eat everything on the plate.

Even past being full, you're like uncomfortable at this point. And again, in that. You can have that conversation about, like, you can, you can have it tomorrow. It'll be there. It'll, you know, it's gonna be less work on you. You don't have to make a, a completely different meal. [00:40:00] Um, I think also destigmatizing frozen foods, canned foods, convenience foods, because in this culture of wellness, it's like, oh, we don't, we don't do canned food.

We don't, you know, everything has to be fresh. And that's just not practical. It's not practical for anyone really, I don't think, unless you're like living on a farm, I guess. I don't know. Like canned foods have a lot of great nutrition. I wanna plug in the scifi beans, the canned, they're so good. I just put 'em on a tortilla with cheese and that's a meal right there.

Like, you know, and frozen fruits and vegetables, like, there's just so many nutrient rich options that are preserved that I think we should really promote to people because of their convenience and especially for people who are financially struggling. It's a great way to make the money go longer. . Um, and then meal prep.

I think meal prep is really relevant to, to everyone, but especially people who are experiencing some hardship because, you know, just spending a couple hours a week laying things out and saying, [00:41:00] okay, this is what I'm gonna be doing for the week. You're less likely to, to eat out and spend money in that way.

Um, you have less anxiety cuz you know, you have more organization around what the plan is gonna be for the days to come. . Um, so I think those are some things that might be helpful in Yeah. In these populations. Yeah,

Jess: that's a really good answer. Um, the other question that we got was around mindful eating when you're eating with others.

And I talked about one scenario, which is like the corny food critic thing, which I find really fun. Um, but the other. The thing that I read in a book, um, it was called Saver, about Mindful Eating, was just the idea of taking a pause before the meal when you're with other people. And I know in a lot of cultures you already do that is prayer, right?

So it can be a pause, um, of gratitude. It can be, you know, a 30 to one, 32nd to one minute. Um, where you're thinking [00:42:00] about the, the food or looking at it or smelling it or whatever the case may be, but just taking that little break together silently, I think can go a long way. Just get you in that mindset.

Wendy: Yeah. I like that one. Yeah. All right, y'all. Any questions? Any questions? Going once, going twice. We have one we have, we'll start here and then we'll. Hi. Hi. Hi. Should we pass the mic around? I don't know if I could, oh, there's one there. There's one there. . I got the.

Jess: Testing , . Hey. Hey, my name's Emmy. I'm a dietician as well, and a, um, intuitive eating counselor too. Um, my question is about mindful eating with patients who have eating disorders or history of disordered eating. Um, I've seen a interesting pattern with my patients who are working on mindful eating, um, who maybe have extreme food anxiety and when they eat, they just can't get out of their head.

The fears they have about [00:43:00] food or the rules or whatnot. And it of course really disconnects 'em from eating. And they actually have found that distracting themselves with like TV or whatever it is, helps 'em to get out of their head out of those rules. So they are more actually connected to the food, eat slower.

And so I'm curious to know your thoughts on that or if you've seen that, um, in either of your practices. Yeah, that's a really great question and a good point. And that's why I think that it is no one size fits all because that makes total sense, um, with people needing the distraction and especially.

People who tend to restrict, they might live more in their heads, right? So it's like, okay, well if that's gonna be a negative thing in terms of um, this mealtime, then maybe it is good to have a distraction. So I think just giving yourself or your patients the permission to experiment with different things and see what really works for you.

And maybe the goal eventually is to feel okay in your mind and in your body with the meal, but maybe [00:44:00] in the beginning it's just too much or too painful. And so just taking. One step at a time. Can I say it one more time? Yeah. I just wanna say I'm a huge fan and Booth haven't made easy as like a personal mantra of mine.

Like

Wendy: whenever in the kitchen, I'm like, booth, haven't . Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. That's so nice. We have another question.

Jess: Hi there. So I'm Starla Garcia. I'm a registered dietician in Houston, Texas, and I work with endurance athletes, um, in incorporating some mindful eating, intuitive eating practices in there.

Um, my question is, um, so

Wendy: during the pandemic I saw a big uptick of women of color that were experiencing a lot of stress in the work. And you guys gave

Jess: a great, um, example of like adding in lunch times to like a schedule or like a calendar, just like making time for that. I'm curious of like other ways that you guys encouraged, um, managing stress and how to deal with stress, especially like in particular times of [00:45:00] distress, like the pandemic.

Wendy: Yeah, I think especially for people of color, it's really important to validate experiences. So I think just communicating about some of these things is really important. Um, and especially in a workplace where maybe you don't feel like you're being represented, like you feel like maybe you're one of not many.

Um, it's really good to just like have these conversations and that's why I really enjoy, um, doing the podcast with jazz because within. Fashion. There's really not many people of color. And we used to feel so isolated when we first became dieticians, like going to fci, like the nutrition conference. And we were like, oh my God, , like, you know, cuz we were living in New York City and our reality was so different to like the reality of dietetics, um, on a national level.

And we were like, oh my God. Like we really feel, um, very out of. And so, yeah, I think just kind of like talking, um, about the stress that's [00:46:00] happening about your experience in the workplace, um, just in general about whatever frustrations it is that you have, um, I think can be a huge release, um, for

Jess: a lot of people.

Yeah, I agree. Just validating what people are feeling. And the way I always like to tie it back is asking how does that impact your eating? Right? So it's like you're feeling this way in the workplace, you're feeling really stressed. that can impact people's eating in very different ways. Like it might be where that person decides, I don't have time to eat, I don't wanna eat, I'm stressed.

I don't want people, I don't wanna fellowship with these people. And so then it's like, okay, well you're undern nourishing yourself. Right? Or other people might be more, um, stress eaters or stress binges. Mm-hmm. . So I think that's another important question. And then just like supporting them in whatever.

in whatever way you can for advocating for themselves within the workplace. Mm-hmm. and like if it's, you know, talking to their boss and saying, my dietician is prescribing that I need to block 12 to one to eat this meal. As I'm sure a lot of us with our [00:47:00] patients, and especially patients with eating disorders, like when jobs don't encourage you to have a lunch and you need to eat a lunch, it can be really tricky.

So just helping them. . Mm-hmm. .

Wendy: Yeah. And also, I just wanna say one more thing, like making sure that people are prioritizing their comfort level versus someone else's. Cause I think especially in work settings, you're trying to make everyone feel comfortable around you, but like maybe eating in the lunchroom is like very anxiety inducing and like you just wanna be by yourself or you're very overwhelmed by being around.

People. And so, and that can really affect your digestion. Just like you're, you're so uncomfortable eating food because, you know, you're kind of forcing yourself to be in these settings. And so it's okay to eat by yourself. You know it, you know, you don't wanna like make yourself feel uncomfortable just so that you don't look a certain kind of way.

Yeah. Thank you.[00:48:00]

Jess: All right. Um, my name is Gabby Ubo. I'm a holistic nurse practitioner. Um, so kind of segue from the question she asked, kind of the similar to what I wanna ask. Um, so I just wanna, you know, get some tips about this question. So, um, some of the things I find out when working with some of my

Wendy: clients, you know,

Jess: I'm trying to go into, you know, Helping them with modifying their food to eat more healthy.

And some of the things I have experienced, which personally too for myself, I've experienced that. Um, but, um, I've experienced some of my clients that. They wanna eat healthy. We've made all these healthy plans of what things they can, you know, change in their lifestyle, in their food, eating, all those kind of things.

But, um, I've had some of them that they want, they, of course, they wanna change this lifestyle, but being the kind of cultural or their family, um, is kind of more like a stressor for. . [00:49:00] Um, I have actually had a client, which it was actually increasing her anxiety, um, which of course modifying her food would have helped, but she has this close knit family and they were all kind of, I would say, against what she's doing, um, which will be beneficial.

But of course, um, they could not see that. And she has. , almost like she had to give up and she stopped being my clients and she apologized. She's like, I can't do this. It's increasing my anxiety because my family, she just had that strong, so much ties and she could not, and I've seen people with many other clients as well that deal with this when they're really trying to change their lifestyle.

They become like they're isolated, like they're losing friends or even the family members are all. What are you doing? Um, and I'm sure some of your experience, so I just wanna maybe you can give some tips on how can you help these people, um, for this kind of things like this. So yeah, that is [00:50:00] something that we see a lot in terms of just some conflict, right?

Like with the family, whether it's the family. trying to push food on you. I call them food pushers where it's like we talk about the hunger scale and in a lot of cultures they're like, what are you talking Like the hunger scale is irrelevant, right? Because it's like, but I cooked all this food and you need to, you know, it's a form of love.

And, and while we can appreciate that, right, like sometimes it might go against our own comfort cuz maybe we are full. or we just ate, or we don't wanna have like a second or third portion of whatever it is. Um, so I think just having people understand that family typically means well, right? And like they just wanna connect with you through the food and show love through the food.

And I would encourage people if they're trying to like quote, eat healthier. I hope that doesn't mean like [00:51:00] not eating any foods that they love or any foods from their culture because. Long term, probably not gonna be the best strategy. Um, so trying to incorporate those, the, the cultural foods, um, as well as any other foods they're, they're adding to their plate, um, can be.

helpful. Do you have any tips on that? Because I know

Wendy: mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. And then there were boundaries, right?

you gotta set boundaries. I mean, I feel like with family, it's like an open book. You just never know what's gonna come out of their mouth when it comes to what you're eating or even your body like. During the holidays, I was in Dominican Republic and it was outta control and I had to put a few people in their place because it was nonstop.

And I was like, all right, what we're not gonna do is we're not gonna be talking about X, Y, and Z. And you'd be surprised. Like there, you know, my godmother was like, and I'm like, you'll be fine , [00:52:00] you'll be fine. But I put her right in her place and you know, everyone. Comfort levels to varying degrees. Yeah. So, you know, it's not like you have to go off on, you know, your auntie or something, but, um, you decide like maybe you wanna just change the topic or, or do it more gently.

But, you know, for some people who've just about had it, it's like, You know, it's very frustrating and when there's just like constant commenting about what you're eating, what you're not eating, yeah. What you're wearing, you know who you're with, like mind your business. So, um, you know, I think just having those boundaries is really important because you have to prioritize yourself.

It's not very sustainable if you're just trying to make family members comfortable around you. Yeah. That's not gonna. Very long. What

Jess: do you say though? Um, because I did experience this when I was with your family. Um,

Wendy: yep. , it's a cultural, I think

Jess: it's a cultural, it's a cultural thing, right? But I feel like a lot of cultures can relate.

Um, Where I'm feeling stuffed. [00:53:00] Yeah. And they're like, you didn't eat anything. You need to eat more. Right. Like, how do you navigate that? Yeah. Where it's like, I literally feel sick trying to, I mean, not anymore. I wouldn't do that, but trying to like, like you're saying, please other people and like not offend people, but they're like, wait, you barely ate anything?

You're starving. You need this. You need that?

Wendy: Yeah. Pack it up. Get me a Tupperware. Yeah, I'm gonna take some home. . . That's my favorite too. You just get to a point, like, I feel like at this point my family knows just not to go there. Yeah. Because I just be fire around with the comments. I'm like, no. Uh, and they're like, okay.

They're like, we're not even gonna mess with this girl. . Listen, sometimes you have to. It's ridiculous. You know, as you get older, I feel like you're a little more good with the responses, but my god, yeah, it's nonstop.

Jess: No, my husband's mom, God bless our lover, . Um, but she makes a lot of food and it is my favorite food cuz [00:54:00] he's Air Tree and they're, um, it's like, you know, Ethiopian Air Train and she's always like, oh my God, you didn't eat anything and so now pack it up, right?

Yeah. But it. Buckets of food. It takes up our whole fridge for like a month. And uh, so now I don't know how to ask to pack less. Yeah.

Wendy: But that's tricky. That's tricky. . Especially when it's your mother-in-law, cuz you don't want to be like, yeah, no, you cannot. You cannot,

Jess: um, any other que Hopefully we answered a little

Wendy: bit.

Yes.

Jess: That answers it. And that's like you said, I think as it's a training process. And, um, this is one thing too. I encourage my clients that they have to take care of themselves. They matter. And, um, as time goes on, they will finally come along and you create those boundaries. So I think you guys, that's very helpful too, too.

Wendy: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Mm-hmm. .

Jess: Can, you know who might,

Wendy: oh, we're gonna get you the mic[00:55:00]

Um, thinking about people who might be resistant to mindful eating, just thinking about the Society of Productivity and like, uh, taking that time. And I know you have some tips around like, you know, set a timer for five or 10 minutes or take a few deep breaths. But as far as those who come up with any and all excuses not to incorporate it, what is an approach that you would take?

That's a great question. Cause we just did this episode on, uh, personality types and this person would be called a questioner.

Jess: Questioner. And Or a

Wendy: rebel. And a rebel, yes. Yeah. Like why would I do that? And it's almost like just anti-everything.

Jess: Yeah. So we had, um, an expert on our this this week actually.

And she wrote a book on this. Four different personality types that she's found through the research. Um, her name's Gretchen Rubin and one of them when it comes to forming habits. And so one of them was upholder, where it's like very easy, they'll just do anything, but they can also [00:56:00] be very rigid. There's also obliger where if they have external accountability, like if you're their, are you dietician by the way?

No. Okay. Are you healthcare provider? Health coach. Okay. Yeah. So if you're their health coach and you're like their external accountability, um, They are more likely to do it. They need that. And then there's questioners like me, and I think you, where we need the research and we need to know like why exactly this, like it can't feel arbitrary.

Um, so for that person, I think giving them. kind of some of the research that we discussed today, or that you can find and say, this is why this is gonna help you. You have these issues that you're coming in for. Here's, you know, some, um, some literature that might, you know, convince you that it's something that you do wanna do.

And then the rebels. It's a little bit tricky, um, because

Wendy: you kind of present them with the information and then you're like, all right, do what you want with it. . Yeah. . You don't wanna [00:57:00] like fuss with them because then they're gonna become more anti Yeah. So,

Jess: and it's just not Yeah. Gonna work that. Yeah. So do you know, do you guys know motivational interviewing?

Yes. Okay. For people who are listening to the podcast, we'll do an episode on that one. Yeah. But basically that's a technique to. Evoke change from within. So that's what I would use in that ca case. And also for, I mean, really everybody, but especially a rebel cuz it's like rolling with the resistance.

Like what is the resistance? Um, maybe they have past experiences and it wasn't pleasant, or maybe it's like painful for them to eat mindfully because they don't, you know, wanna be in the present moment. So I think just kind of probably what you're already doing, digging deeper and figuring out like who they are and what's the potential why for them.

also duty to your future self. That's one of the things that Gretchen Rubin talks about, and especially for rebels who wanna do what they wanna do in the moment. And they kind of resist like anyone suggesting [00:58:00] anything. Um, and so just saying like, okay, well what would my future self really appreciate and.

Again, if you're someone who has some health issues stemming from eating really quickly or not being mindful, your future self is gonna like it if you eat mindfully for this meal. Mm-hmm. , I like that one.

Wendy: Do we have time for another

Jess: question? We don't. Oh, we're getting the uh, we are right on time. We're getting the wrap up and that wraps up the

Wendy: future.

That's how WRAP podcast. Thank

Jess: you all for Thank you for being coming. This was amazing. You guys are such a good audience. We had so much fun. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the Food Heaven podcast. If you haven't already, make sure to connect with us online. We're most active on the Gram at Food Heaven, but we're also on Facebook and Twitter at Food Heaven Show.

If you like this podcast, make sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share with a friend. Yep. Our

Wendy: podcast is released every Wednesday and each week we take a deep dive into topics like health at every size, food and culture, intuitive [00:59:00] eating, mental health, and body acceptance. If you're looking for a sustainable and inclusive path to wellness, come hang out with us to learn how to take care of yourself from the inside out.

We'll catch you next time. Bye.