The Pivot: Do You Need to Love What You Do?

Wendy: [00:00:00] Marley. Welcome back.

Marley: Thank

you. So good to be here.

Wendy: let me start that again. I'm like, are you there?

Marley: I know. Sorry, I.

Wendy: W Okay, no worries. Marley. Welcome back. We are thrilled to have you on for another episode

Marley: Thank you so

much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Wendy: Yay. We're so excited and wanna follow up. The conversation from last week, we were talking about a lot of people staying stuck in doing things that they don't love because it pays the bill, it's comfortable, it's what they're used to.

So I wanted to kick off this episode by talking a little bit about this.

Do you have to love what

you. do for work,

or like for business? Because what I have

seen is that, and even for us

I, I, mean, I still, there is love there, but I find that the longer you do it and the more businessy it becomes, the more that [00:01:00] love kind of dissolves because you have to focus on so many logistical things and like, you know, it, it kind of simmers down a bit.

So what are your thoughts on this?

Marley: Yeah, I mean, I think I have kind of a a two-part answer. to

this, some Of which might

feel kind of confrontational to

people. But I think, I think yes, starting kind of at the end of what

you were talking about, where you are,

you both started this company from

a place of what you love

to do, right? You love to do these things.

You loved food, you loved talking about food, you loved helping people. You know, with their health and their lives through food. So I think that's really beautiful. It's a really incredible thing when we can build our life's work upon, you know, the things that we love to do. I think it's, it's a really beautiful thing.

I think it's really

more of an innate thing than we realize. It's just not the way that our world is necessarily set up. And I think that there are obviously a variety of [00:02:00] barriers to kind of follow that path of like, do what you love and make it work, because just the societal infrastructure is not necessarily set up like that for us.

That being said, there is also a lot of privilege, right? That that can come with that, of like, oh, well I just love this and I'm just gonna figure out how to make it work. Why? Because I have the space time, financial resources, familial support, whatever it is. There's obviously a lot of people too that.

That build career space of what they love, that that is already within an existing infrastructure, right? Like some people really love math, they become math professors, right? Some people really love dance and they become professional dancers. They wanna be a firefighter, et cetera. So it's not just for entrepreneurs but along the entrepreneurial route,

I think first and foremost, it is an incredibly beautiful, super brave thing to do, to build a career based off of what you love.

That being said, it has inherent challenges that I think people do not [00:03:00] necessarily anticipate and they don't talk about enough, which is, well, if I'm doing what I love, I won't work a day in my life. Right? That's like a phrase that's been thrown out there. And I don't,

first of all, like,

we gotta make, we have to make money, right?

We need to make, for me, like the beautiful gift of being able to build a career off of what you love to do is about like making impact first and foremost.

and

making money, right? Like we can't just, if we were all sitting around, I have to share this with you, we had a laugh about this. Like if we were all sitting around like, you know, just in a bliss pool all day, every day, like that is not functionally, that's not like a functional way to be.

So I think there is this misconception that if you're doing what you love, like it won't be challenging or you won't ha experience tension or, or frustration or corruption or whatever. I think to a certain extent, when we're doing what we love to [00:04:00] do and we still experience the inherent challenges of life, sometimes it can be tougher because it's like, it's harder for us to detach, it's harder for us to regulate or have boundaries because our heart is so in it.

On, on the opposite side of that, sometimes those challenges and those hurdles and whatever are.

Jess: are,

Marley: know, we are more fulfilled and more driven and more kind of revitalized to be able to get through them because we love what we do and we're aligned with our mission and purpose. So again, it's like doing what you love is so much more complex than, you know, if I do what I love, I'll never work a day in my life.

Like, it's just not, that's not the reality. And I think if we can get

more conscious and realistic and build more community around just like the inevitable challenges of life, of business, of collaborating, co-founding of whatever I think that people could, could [00:05:00] build upon what they love in a more effective and efficient way.

And I also think it would liberate a lot of people who set out to build a career on base of what they love, and they're like, I don't like love this anymore. It took, you know, this, it took it away from me. And like, some people are not, you're, you're supposed to keep what you love, like for what you love.

In your life. And again, that can be challenging when you're working a nine to five and you have kids and you have people to take care. Like Absolutely. Again, life is challenging. Life is complex, period. So I think it's about developing, you know, a lot of self-awareness around what is it about what you love and why is that gonna be profitable and make impact, et cetera.

So there's that. Right? I I mean, I could, there's so many kind of complexities in that. The other part of your question is do we have to love what we do? Right. I say like, ideally, yes. That's, that's fabulous. Like, absolutely. The reality is, is that so many of us [00:06:00] do not, are so far away from that, right?

Like, it's a privilege to do what you love to do, and in a certain way it's a privilege to like, not. Right to, to not even be aware of, like that yearning, that intensity that that ability to be like, yeah, well I don't really care. Like, it's fine. I love other things that, whatever. Right? I mean, we're all so different.

But I think

that question, especially in this like mega entrepreneurial space of, oh, well, like if I'm not do doing what I love, like my life is wasted, or I'm this, I'm that, or like, you know, all these intense pressures too, to like everyone have their own business. I also just think it's not functional, it's not realistic, and it's really not necessary for a lot of people.

So I think along the conversations we've been having about pivoting, about feeling stuck, about, you know, not knowing what to do or how to make changes, it's like we, first of all, we're not always gonna love what we do, [00:07:00] period. We're gonna love parts of it, hopefully. And what I really focus more on is like, we need to love ourselves.

Through what we are doing, regardless of what we are doing, we need to love ourselves because if we love ourselves through what we're doing, we can inevitably harness the lessons of whatever we are doing at any given time and use that to build upon our power to then gain clarity about, you know, making a larger career pivot or figuring out another, you know, career path or developing a, a hobby or a job on the side or whatever.

But if we don't love ourselves through

job that we don't love,

then we're just gonna be depleted. You know, if, if we don't make the choice to like, kind of bloom where we're planted, even just for a time being, right? It's like, let's say someone works at McDonald's [00:08:00] and they want to, you know, have a tech company.

But they need, you know, they're, they're a student, they're mini like, whatever their situation is, and they're like, this is not my destiny. Like, I hate this. How can they love themselves? Through that process, sometimes people might be like, well, if I love myself enough, I'd burn it to the ground and then duh.

You know? But again, like, we have to make money. We have to support ourselves. There are really practical realities of life

that, again, like there's so much flashiness and like, just do what you love and like live your mission and like, you know, all of this messaging. And it's like, great, how?

Right? Like, what is my reality?

How can I love myself enough to figure out what's right for me? Again, as I was speaking about in our previous episode, like getting quiet, asking for help, getting in touch with our needs and desires and understanding like, The, the big picture and then how we can take action in our careers around that.

And again, [00:09:00] like these are such huge conversations and we're having them obviously within like a relatively

you know, short.

amount of time in a short format. But

to kind of circle back to the question of do you need to love what you do?

No, you don't need to. We need to figure out how to love ourselves and learn the lessons that are available to us.

Because when we're, regardless of our circumstance, because from that place, we own our power.

And from that place, we can create,

you know, anything. Yes, we, there's systemic oppression, there's all of these things, right? That will continue to be challenges. But for someone who's like,

I. Working at McDonald's or someone who's, you know, feels like they're stuck in a tech job or someone feels like they, you know, work at a grocery store, whatever.

It's like, what can you learn from this place right there right now? Like, start with what you have and [00:10:00] focus on loving yourself.

Because if we're always like complaining and disrupted by the external things and the job we have that we don't like, it's not enough, it's not enough, it's not enough, then we're just depleted.

And it will take so much more for us to get to where we love to be, to do what we love to do.

Yeah, and it's just, it's just like how the choice, right? Again, I've talked a lot about choice. It's like, if you want change, like choose,

choose to change, first of all, choose yourself. And it doesn't need to be in extremes,

right? Because it's like a lot of people can't afford to be in those extremes. Not for their body, not for their financial situation, not for their relationships, whatever. And sometimes those extremes are the right choice. Sometimes it is like burn it to the ground and start over. Right? So it's a spectrum and that's really why I say like, get quiet, get support and let what's good be great, right?

Work with what's working and, and go from there.

Jess: Yeah, great answer. I yeah, I, [00:11:00] agree with you that it is complicated and it is a disservice and it almost feels like a millennial or not millennial. What are we, what am I, I'm blanking on the term. Millennial. Yeah. Yeah, millennial. It feels like a millennial thing where it's kind of capitalizing on what you do and loving that, and it can become, Quite toxic.

But one thing that stuck out to me or that stuck out to me from your intake form was, what do you wanna be remembered for? And for me, I honestly was like, Hmm, I don't really care about being remembered, but if I had to pick one thing, Aside from helping people, it would be taking risks and living life on my own terms.

Like that's really important to me. And I think going into our sessions with you, kind of with that, mindset of like, no, no, no. At the end of the day, like you're saying, you have to choose yourself and you have to figure out if you're feeling unsettled, what is really going on. But when we came to you, what's interesting is [00:12:00] we had no ideas.

We were

just like, we know that this, we don't see the longevity in this. It's been 12 years, but we have no clue

what is next for us. And I, feel like we were acting on a lot of faith and are still acting on a lot of faith that it's going to

work out. So my question for you is, do you think

working with us for the past like two months that it is possible. for us to

pivot even

though we have been doing the same thing for so long?

Absolutely.

Marley: I mean, I, I, I really do. I

I think that,

I

mean, again, there's a lot I could say, but I, I think for you two specifically, right, to like affirm you, Jess and Wendy, I, I more than believe that this next venture is possible. I think obviously we know a lot of the juicy details that the audience doesn't know yet about kind of this next venture.

I want to, you know, all the listeners, hello. It's epic. It's amazing. It's the lack to be [00:13:00] excited about. I think the larger question of, you know, if someone's been doing something for so long, like can they pivot? Right? Can they make a change? Can they do something differently? To make this, you know, even an extended and like more supportive answer for the audience is, yeah.

Like,

why not? Again? I mean, I think I am, I'm really enthusiastic about like we're alive

and

we have choices to make and it's not about it being easy. You can have and practice ease, right? And that's something that we've been working on for you both of like, let's just be useful about these. These are big decisions, right?

And again, I'm very action oriented. I'm very like kind of infrastructure and logistically based. It's not just like, well, let's just like feel good and like make good choices from feeling it's not that, right? It's like what is practical? What works, what's sustainable? [00:14:00] And what comes from the truest realist place within you?

So, From, from that place there. You know, there's so many people that I've worked with, or just people in my life that I've come across, and obviously a larger cultural narrative of like, oh, well, it's too late to start over. Or you get to a certain place in your life and you're stuck, or you're too old or too much has happened.

Or like, you have no skills that you know, you know, you wanna go into the new thing and you don't, you're not prepared. You have no connections, like whatever that is.

I think as long as we're like living and breathing, then there is like, there is positive potential for pivots, for changes. Again, I go back to those like three steps of get quiet,

right?

Create space for you to tap into what feels good for you,

ask for help. And let what's good be great, right? Work with the things that are working in your life and figure out how you can build yourself [00:15:00] up enough with support to be able to make those pivots again, and this really applies to like every sector of life with our health, our relationships, whatever.

But specifically with work, like you wanna go into a new field, you wanna start a new career, you wanna make a pivot within your existing role, you wanna have more responsibility, you wanna have less, whatever that is.

Yeah,

I just, I always think it's possible. And I also think it's such, I think change is like one of the most natural and creative privileges that we have as a species.

Like it is an, it's an inherent right to change. I feel so,

I say hell yes. Like go for it, you know? I mean, for YouTube, like, I'm so excited for you two specifically, and this for everybody else. I, I really do just very genuinely wanna send that kind of like, love and support of, of you can do it.

Wendy: Love that answer, Marley. And I am, I have to hop off, but I'm going [00:16:00] to just I'm gonna ask you a question. And then I'm just gonna ask another question, which Josh, you can edit in just so that I'm, you know, sprinkled into the episode. And then Jess will continue the conversation. So, Josh, if you can start here and then, you know, put in Marley's response and then later on Jess will indicate where to add in the next question.

Then Molly will respond to that. Okay.

So here we go.

And also what about for people who are like, Okay. yes, pivoting makes a lot of sense, but they still have, they wanna pivot, but they're still interested in the work that they're doing. Like, for example, for us, we're dieticians and we're like, okay, well maybe we still wanna do something nutrition related, but we know that we need.

A change. What is helpful for someone who wants to make that change and doesn't want to completely start [00:17:00] from scratch? So that's question number one. And then question number two is, For someone who's listening and is like, okay, how do I actually turn this into something practical? Like, what is my next best step?

I'm ready to make a change, whether

it's related to something that I'm doing, whether I wanna completely burn everything that I'm doing and start from

scratch. What are like some great resources that you would recommend

or some good questions that someone should ask themselves? Someone who's looking to make that change.

Marley: Okay.

Jess: you so much.

Marley: Wendy, thank you so much. I hope you have a great rest of your day.

Jess: Bye, Wendy.

Marley: Yes, we'll talk soon.

Jess: And I have a call at

1130

Marley: I do too.

Jess: Okay, great. Perfect. Okay.

Marley: Yeah. Okay, So.

I should answer,

Jess: start with the, tips for like if you don't wanna start over and you, you [00:18:00] kind of wanna weave. And then if you also wanna

answer like because I was gonna ask you next, But you could just add it into the question, like creating that new narrative.

Cause I know that's your expertise too. Like how can you take from What you have and kind of. Make it something that still works and kind of start to tell a new story about

your path.

Marley: Yeah.

So.

Jess: So,

Marley: Okay. So the, the kind of the questions that we're really looking at is if, if you're, if you're in, you like what you're doing enough, right? But you do wanna make some changes, kind of where do we start there, right? What questions do we ask ourselves? What kind of

steps can we take? And, and overall in general,

whether we're looking to make big changes or kind of more smaller

changes,

What's

kind of the framework that we can work in, right?

What is, again, change can feel really esoteric and like vague and intense. And we can have all of these, like these feelings that get mixed up in our bodies and our hearts. [00:19:00] And then the, the bigness of the change out there, which again, is really all in our mind and the kind of tension and intensity in our body between the two of those things, it can feel really chaotic, right?

And really exhausting to be like, well, I don't, like, I want something else, but I don't know what, and it's emotional and I can't, and da, da da. And then we just stay with what works. And it's this cycle over and over and over again of this kind of push pull, push, pull of like, I want more, but I don't know how, and I'm exhausted, so I'll just keep doing this.

I want more, but I dunno how. Right? So I mean, if you're looking to make,

I, I would say in general, the framework that I've developed really works, right, for, if you're looking to make small changes or big changes in your career, in your health, in your relationships, whatever. But for work specifically, if you're looking to make

any level of change,

really

kind of the three step process would be to get quiet, sit down with yourself, create space, and, [00:20:00] and really enunciate, I am investigating and creating change in my life.

So that's first and foremost. It'd be like, okay, I'm committed to this. I'm in a season of change right now, and I have choice and agency that I am going to exercise to create this change in my life.

And or if the change is happening, right? There's a reorg. They got laid off, they got, you know, all of these really wild things that are happening right now and that have been happening.

Same

thing, right? Of like, change is happening. I have agency and choice. I'm gonna make the change work for me.

So whether you're conducting it or it's kind of hopped into your life,

the process of getting quiet,

creating space, enunciating that you're going through a period of change is crucial and is the first step.

Because from that place, we can have self-compassion

and from the place of self-compassion, that's an unlock to vulnerability and authenticity. [00:21:00] Vulnerability and authenticity give us more creative insights about what we need and what we want. When we know more about what we need and what we want, we can create an action plan around those things.

So that's kind of the first part is this like psycho-emotional practice with behavioral components of emotionally being in touch with yourself to say, I'm going through change that is challenging.

I'm gonna create space and time in my life,

actually, you know, three times a week. I'm not gonna watch TV at night.

I'm gonna sit down, read a book, call a friend journal, ask myself questions, what do I love most about what I'm currently doing? Right? So a lot of questions that that we have and a lot of the intakes I've developed that you have, have worked with of, you know what,

Jess: what?

Marley: let's start within needs and the desires thing, right?

Of like, what do I need right now, period. How much money do I need to make? How many hours do I have to give a week?

What do I need in my life in terms of my [00:22:00] other responsibilities? What do I need to show up for? And then,

Jess: and

Marley: I've created this kind of six step framework in terms of change around needs and desires.

So that is really learning what our needs are first and foremost.

Like learning, annunciating them learning what they are, learning how to not be ashamed of them,

and then taking action to get those things met, right? Get those needs met once those needs are met,

which can take days, weeks, months, years, right?

Not to make it scary, but it's a practice.

Then we move into desires, right? Learning what those desires are, learning how to not be afraid of them,

Jess: them,

Marley: and learning how to get those desires fulfilled, right? So it's learning what our needs are, learning how to not be ashamed of those needs, which is a whole thing.

Learning how to take action, right?

And

taking action is kind of the next two steps in the broader [00:23:00] framework for change is the support thing, right? When we're getting our needs met, when we're getting our desires to filled, we need support, we need community. We cannot do it alone. We should not do it alone.

It is far less effective and less efficient. It's far less fun doing everything by ourselves all the time. It doesn't work. So, you know, again, just to reiterate, getting quiet, creating space, enunciating that you're in a period of change, getting in touch with those needs and desires and, and really like, let yourself go there.

Cuz once you go big, you can always kind of retract and say, okay, let's focus on this one thing right now for the next three weeks, three months, whatever. It's the second big step again that's integrated into this process is getting support.

What that support looks like is, you know, again, like

asking

for friends books.

Mentors,

tapping into a network, cold calling people, emailing, peop, you know, doing your [00:24:00] research, et cetera. So that's like kind of creating the space for change, leveraging, right, the opportunity to change through community and then sustaining the change. Because change inherently, we have setbacks, we have regressions, we have challenges.

So the third part of that is this practice that I've spoken about, you know, many times throughout this podcast, which is ultimately this, you know, kind of

to put it very simply, like a gratitude practice of letting what's good be great, of like, keep paying attention to what is working.

You know, we're, we're making change and experiencing change, like a lot of, there's a lot of disruption that happens naturally.

So when we stay close to what's working, what feels good, what we do have that is fuel for us. When we get distracted by chaos and it's not moving fast enough and impatience and frustration, and nobody understands me and people don't like it. And you know, again, people, people, other people around you might be disrupted by your change.

They might not understand [00:25:00] it. They might, you know, all of these things. It's like stay focused ultimately on you feed yourself, right? For food heaven. Like nourish yourself, take care of your body. That's another thing, you know, of course. And, and this,

know, I think it's actually, this feels inherent to me, but for other people of like, really take care of your body.

Take care of your mind. Like really when you're in a season of change,

on your sleep, focus on your food, focus on your connections and your relationships, whether it's like a career change and you're like, well, who cares what I'm eating? Change takes a lot of psychological energy and a lot of behavioral change, like a lot of behavioral shifts in transition.

So yeah, those are, you know, again, it's an easy thing, quote unquote, easy would be like,

Jess: thing,

Marley: connect with me and, and we can participate in these frameworks together. Right? But gen generally, there's so many ways to do this.

And

then overall, really what, what, a [00:26:00] lot of this isn't just what you were asking about in terms of

the larger vision, right?

For who you are in that change. And that's something that we've worked on. A lot of you were talking about kind of the question I had for you both around legacy of, of who do you wanna be and how do you wanna be remembered and what is the impact that you wanna make? Because when we're changing and we're creating change, that's on us.

We have that agency,

we're not just like flailing around, right? That's what makes change. Chaotic, unsustainable. Then we revert back to old behaviors. So,

Jess: So

Marley: Having that kind of through line and that like, you know, quote unquote personal mission statement of this is who I want to be now

and

creating new narratives around this is who I am right now and this is who I want to be, is something that can fuel us to release the blocks that get in our way when we're changing.

Right? If it's like, oh, well I'm just stuck in this job and like [00:27:00] I don't have much to say and they don't value me. I'm not a person who's valued, like I don't have a big personality, I don't have a lot, whatever.

In Third

grade on the playground, they told me to shut up and now I haven't. Whatever it is, right?

We all have all of these narratives and again, my work, as you mentioned, that is founded in.

and, and the performing arts, right and storytelling's effect on the brain and behavior. This is central to the change management work that I do, and it's central to the creative consulting and business strategy work that I do, because ultimately the narratives that we have as founders, as co-founders, as C-suite executives, et cetera, drive our beliefs, our biology, and our behavior.

So if we are, if we feel deep in ourselves that we wanna make a change, as in we wanna, we wanna raise, right? Like let's look at something that's simple already within an existing structure. We wanna raise.

Jess: we

Marley: We need to create a new narrative that helps us to experience new beliefs, new [00:28:00] biology, and new behavior, to be able to create that change and get that raise.

If we wanna do a whole nother thing, quit our job, move to another country.

Get a

divorce, right? Start a business, then we need to create narratives, right? That fuel, that psychological safety, those physical sensations. So we're not in fear and distrust and anxiety and depression, et cetera, that we're in these experiences that are fueling our power, our agency to change our self-belief, our belief that we deserve to get and receive help, right?

That asking for help is not a weakness, it's a strength, et cetera.

So, you know, the narrative thing can be really simple. It's also, it's nuanced and it's highly personalized, right? And that's something that is, that is a really big part of my work that you've seen and have mentioned in this podcast a few times, is like really asking those questions about what are the stories you're telling yourselves about [00:29:00] what's possible?

How is that making you feel, and how is that conducting your behavior?

Jess: You

Marley: You know, and that's a big part of the, the work that I do. So again, there's a lot in there kind of, people can take what feels resonant and what doesn't.

But yeah,

there's a lot of places to start. And again, just to reiterate, like you can do it.

Jess: I love it. I feel like that is the perfect place to end.

We can all do it and We are doing it.

Marley: And we're doing

it.

Right. Exactly.

Jess: it. So actually Jo this is a note for the producer. Josh, can you plug in the outro from the last episode?

I'll just have this, I'm gonna ask her the line of where we can find her work, but you can plug her answer in from the last one. So, Marley, for the people who are listening, who wanna work with you, where can they find your website, your Instagram, your work? How did they get in touch? Okay, Josh, and then decided the answer. [00:30:00]

Marley: We did it.[00:31:00] [00:32:00] [00:33:00] [00:34:00] [00:35:00] [00:36:00] [00:37:00] [00:38:00] [00:39:00] [00:40:00] [00:41:00] [00:42:00] [00:43:00] [00:44:00] [00:45:00] [00:46:00] [00:47:00] [00:48:00] [00:49:00] [00:50:00] [00:51:00] [00:52:00] [00:53:00] [00:54:00] [00:55:00] [00:56:00] [00:57:00] [00:58:00] [00:59:00] [01:00:00] [01:01:00] [01:02:00] [01:03:00]